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Psoriasis Club › HealthHealth Boards › Prescribed Treatments For Psoriasis v
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MTX senseless with PsA

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MTX senseless with PsA
Caroline Offline
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#1
Mon-24-06-2013, 13:59 PM
Below is translated with Google Translate and checked on correctness.
It shows a recent investigation in the Netherlands in which it is clear that MTX is useless when trying to beat PsA. But that doctors keep on prescribing.
The article can be read (in Dutch) at LINK REMOVED

MTX senseless with Arthritis Psoriasis
A double-blind randomized studies has shown no evidence that six months of treatment with methotrexate (MTX) is effective against synovitis in psoriatic arthritis (PsA). The researchers wonder whether MTX in PsA is effectively a DMARD.

The doctor who prescribes MTX in PsA, does something what many of his colleagues do too. He is even encouraged to do so by the guidelines, while the effectiveness of this treatment has not been conclusively proven. Nevertheless the NICE guidelines advise to try MTX  before considering - well proven effective in PsA - TNF-alpha inhibitors.

British researchers therefore decided to put to test, which was not done before, the effect of MTX in PsA a randomized clinical trial (Rheumatology. 2012, 51 (8) :1368-77). The 221 participants had active PsA and were randomized to 15 mg MTX weekly or placebo. The primary outcome were the Psoriatic Arthritis Response Criteria (PsARC). Secondary outcome measures were the scores of ACR20 and DAS-28, and the seperate items in them.

44 participants, about equally divided between the two groups could not be involved in the follow-up, 26 participants discontinued treatment (14 in the MTX group). After six months no significant effect on PsARC (OR 1.77), nor on the ACR20 or DAS28 score (OR 2.00 respectively. 1,70) showed. Nor has there been significant positive effects of MTX on the number of tender and swollen joints, erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ERS), C-reactive protein (CRP), evaluation of health (HAQ score) and pain perception.

Although there was a trend towards improvement in MTX use, but none of the indices referred to this effect reached statistical significance. The only positive effects of MTX were an improvement of both the doctor and patient global scores and skin scores. The safety was as expected.

The authors conclude that the results do not indicate any improvement of synovitis in PsA by treatment with MTX. They recommended to practitionars that patients should be used with effective conventional means as leflunomide and biologicals.

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Additonal remarks from me... Biologicals can be very dangerous as part of the immune system is inhibited.

Instead, it is found that psorinovo (DMF) used with psoriatic arthritis (PsA) in 9 of the 10 cases gives disappearance and brings much less risk, if the recommended dose is not exceeded. This is demonstrated by including research in 2008 of dr. L. Kunst.

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Name            Type          dose                                      price/year
Remicade      infliximab    5 mg/kg 1 x per 2 months      € 19.352.-
Humira          adalimumab  1 x per week 40 mg                € 32.480.-
Enbrel            etanercept    2 x per week 50 mg              € 28.260.-
Psorinovo      DMF            6 x day 120 mg                      € 1.200,-
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Fred Offline
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#2
Mon-24-06-2013, 15:15 PM
I did think of agreeing with you for a change. But your comment about the Bio's made me disagree, as you knew it would. Tongue

(Mon-24-06-2013, 13:59 PM)Caroline Wrote: The doctor who prescribes MTX in PsA, does something what many of his colleagues do too. He is even encouraged to do so by the guidelines, while the effectiveness of this treatment has not been conclusively proven. Nevertheless the NICE guidelines advise to try MTX before considering - well proven effective in PsA - TNF-alpha inhibitors.

Simple answer to that one is Cost. NICE will say this as the NHS is underfunded and not run properly.


(Mon-24-06-2013, 13:59 PM)Caroline Wrote: They recommended to practitionars that patients should be used with effective conventional means as leflunomide and biologicals.

It's fine saying that but again it's Costs.


(Mon-24-06-2013, 13:59 PM)Caroline Wrote: Additonal remarks from me... Biologicals can be very dangerous as part of the immune system is inhibited.

I think your choice of Very Dangerous is a bit over the top for the English language. Yes it does weaken the immune system, but I wouldn't consider the Bio treatments to be very dangerous NoNo



(Mon-24-06-2013, 13:59 PM)Caroline Wrote: Name Type dose price/year
Remicade infliximab 5 mg/kg 1 x per 2 months € 19.352.-
Humira adalimumab 1 x per week 40 mg € 32.480.-
Enbrel etanercept 2 x per week 50 mg € 28.260.-
Psorinovo DMF 6 x day 120 mg € 1.200,-

And what about countries where DMFs are not an option under their health system?

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Caroline Offline Author
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#3
Mon-24-06-2013, 17:03 PM
(Mon-24-06-2013, 15:15 PM)Fred Wrote: I did think of agreeing with you for a change. But your comment about the Bio's made me disagree, as you knew it would. Tongue
Spank

(Mon-24-06-2013, 13:59 PM)Caroline Wrote: The doctor who prescribes MTX in PsA, does something what many of his colleagues do too. He is even encouraged to do so by the guidelines, while the effectiveness of this treatment has not been conclusively proven. Nevertheless the NICE guidelines advise to try MTX before considering - well proven effective in PsA - TNF-alpha inhibitors.
Fred Wrote:Simple answer to that one is Cost. NICE will say this as the NHS is underfunded and not run properly.
Indeed, i agree, it is costs.... At the cost of the health of a person.
I for instance, do not want to be that person.
In the longer run the damage to the health and the following extra costly treatments will far outrun the biologicals treatment.

(Mon-24-06-2013, 13:59 PM)Caroline Wrote: They recommended to practitionars that patients should be used with effective conventional means as leflunomide and biologicals.
Fred Wrote:It's fine saying that but again it's Costs.
Same answer as before, it is short term shortsighted.


(Mon-24-06-2013, 13:59 PM)Caroline Wrote: Additonal remarks from me... Biologicals can be very dangerous as part of the immune system is inhibited.
Fred Wrote:I think your choice of Very Dangerous is a bit over the top for the English language. Yes it does weaken the immune system, but I wouldn't consider the Bio treatments to be very dangerous NoNo


(Mon-24-06-2013, 13:59 PM)Caroline Wrote: Name Type dose price/year
Remicade infliximab 5 mg/kg 1 x per 2 months € 19.352.-
Humira adalimumab 1 x per week 40 mg € 32.480.-
Enbrel etanercept 2 x per week 50 mg € 28.260.-
Psorinovo DMF 6 x day 120 mg € 1.200,-
Fred Wrote:And what about countries where DMFs are not an option under their health system?
They should be convinced to become a bit more open minded towards this option. There is enough research done. The problem as it appears to me is that they walk between two walls and have no way, nor the willingness to look over this wall. One should not expect this from highly educated scientists.

What now may be happening is that the drive is coming from the farmalogical industries coming with a DMF solution that is 40 times more expensive than it should be.

.
Fred Wrote:Wave
Wave

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Fred Offline
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#4
Mon-24-06-2013, 19:41 PM

(Mon-24-06-2013, 13:59 PM)Caroline Wrote: Additonal remarks from me... Biologicals can be very dangerous as part of the immune system is inhibited.
Fred Wrote:I think your choice of Very Dangerous is a bit over the top for the English language. Yes it does weaken the immune system, but I wouldn't consider the Bio treatments to be very dangerous NoNo


What?

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Caroline Offline Author
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#5
Mon-24-06-2013, 20:54 PM
(Mon-24-06-2013, 19:41 PM)Fred Wrote:
(Mon-24-06-2013, 13:59 PM)Caroline Wrote: Additonal remarks from me... Biologicals can be very dangerous as part of the immune system is inhibited.
Fred Wrote:I think your choice of Very Dangerous is a bit over the top for the English language. Yes it does weaken the immune system, but I wouldn't consider the Bio treatments to be very dangerous NoNo


What?

Ok, ok, this was a bit over the edge, but I am quite sure that DMF is a lot safer, and cheaper.

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Fred Offline
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#6
Mon-24-06-2013, 21:13 PM
(Mon-24-06-2013, 20:54 PM)Caroline Wrote: Ok, ok, this was a bit over the edge, but I am quite sure that DMF is a lot safer, and cheaper.

Cheaper yes, and safer is a better choice of words. Wink

Hold on Fred we almost agreed on something. Scare

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Krissie_Wright Offline
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#7
Mon-01-07-2013, 12:39 PM
I wouldn't say that MTX is pointless for treating PsA. This time last year I was crippled by inflammatory fluid build up (synovitis) around the joints, nerves and tendons of my wrists and hands. I tried every precription pain killer and anti-inflammatory that my GP could prescribe me before being given MTX by my Rheumy.... Within 48 hours the inflammatory fluid had gone and so had the pain, stiffness and feelings of complete uselessness.

Not all drugs work for everyone, I know that most topical treatments do nothing for my skin, and the data presented in this paper is interesting with regards to the efficacy of MTX on PsA especially that the data seems so negative especially considering the type of response I have had to it but I agree that the evidence for halting the progression of PsA is limited in the case of MTX.

Also, the clinical test size is too small (in my opinion), you need a far larger group to say definitively that it does not work.. for example, how many dropped out because the MTX had a positive effect? How many through side effects? How many of the Placebo candidates left because the PsA was too painful and had to be prescribed other drugs?

As for Biologicals, they are indeed much worse for the immune system than MTX. MTX only interacts with one biochemical pathway which can be counteracted by the simple act of taking a folic acid supplement, to my knowledge there is nothing to take to counteract the actions of any of the biologicals and the pathways they tend to disrupt have much more far reaching effects on other cells of the body than MTX does.

That said, I'm not saying that MTX is for everyone....
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