Interesting reply and I guess the simple answer is they just don't know, these vaccines have been rushed out and they are flying by the seat if their pants and learning as they go.
But my thinking is if you are OK with a flu jab it will probably be safe for the covid jab but that's just my thinking

(Fri-25-12-2020, 14:49 PM)jiml Wrote: Interesting reply and I guess the simple answer is they just don't know, these vaccines have been rushed out and they are flying by the seat if their pants and learning as they go.
But my thinking is if you are OK with a flu jab it will probably be safe for the covid jab but that's just my thinking

I'm not certain the vaccines have been as rushed as we might think. And perhaps they have, just going by different articles.

I read one early on that explained that under normal circumstances, they can spend years just getting the funding, which was cut short when countries immediately approved funding for a coronavirus vaccine. That made sense to me.

Also that study of SARS vaccines began years ago and that (some?) of the current covid vaccines were able to begin further along with that knowledge. As in a lot of research was already in place. Also makes sense.

Now I don't know how much of that is fact and how much of that is just to reassure people. And of course with anything new there is no way for certain to tell of any long term issues until long term arrives.

I saw a cute cartoon, it showed a woman with a "mark" on her arm and a child. The child asked what the mark was for and the woman answered that it was a scar from the smallpox vaccine she received as a child. The child then asks why they don't have a scar like that and the woman replied... "Because it worked"

The only thing that concerns me is that the construction of the Pfizer vaccine is a type,as I understand, that has never been approved or used before.
I think that I prefer the Oxford one as the construction of that is similar to existing types.

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:04 PM)D Foster Wrote: The only thing that concerns me is that the  construction of the Pfizer vaccine is a type,as I understand, that has never been approved or used before.
I think that I prefer the Oxford one as the construction of that is similar to existing types.

That is not entirely true Dave.
A very long time ago, in the time before the antibiotics were discovered (because that is a discovery, not a development, and in fact more scary than a vaccine), people used a so called blood therapy which worked against specifically bacterial problems. They did not know in that time, but the now we understand the reason that it worked and that is because this therapy showed the DNA to the immune system, which then reacted by making the correct anti bodies.
This Pfizer vaccine works in the same way, but with RNA. The principle is the same.

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:56 PM)Caroline Wrote:

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:04 PM)D Foster Wrote: The only thing that concerns me is that the  construction of the Pfizer vaccine is a type,as I understand, that has never been approved or used before.
I think that I prefer the Oxford one as the construction of that is similar to existing types.

That is not entirely true Dave.
A very long time ago, in the time before the antibiotics were discovered (because that is a discovery, not a development, and in fact more scary than a vaccine), people used a so called blood therapy which worked against specifically bacterial problems. They did not know in that time, but the now we understand the reason that it worked and that is because this therapy showed the DNA to the immune system, which then reacted by making the correct anti bodies.
This Pfizer vaccine works in the same way, but with RNA. The principle is the same.

But it's never been approved yet for use before .

(Sat-26-12-2020, 00:29 AM)D Foster Wrote:

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:56 PM)Caroline Wrote:

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:04 PM)D Foster Wrote: The only thing that concerns me is that the  construction of the Pfizer vaccine is a type,as I understand, that has never been approved or used before.
I think that I prefer the Oxford one as the construction of that is similar to existing types.

That is not entirely true Dave.
A very long time ago, in the time before the antibiotics were discovered (because that is a discovery, not a development, and in fact more scary than a vaccine), people used a so called blood therapy which worked against specifically bacterial problems. They did not know in that time, but the now we understand the reason that it worked and that is because this therapy showed the DNA to the immune system, which then reacted by making the correct anti bodies.
This Pfizer vaccine works in the same way, but with RNA. The principle is the same.

But it's never been approved yet for use before .

For everything there is a first time.... and “approval” is a burocratic process that has nothing to do with real physical life. Nature goes on without any “approval”.

(Sat-26-12-2020, 09:06 AM)Caroline Wrote:

(Sat-26-12-2020, 00:29 AM)D Foster Wrote:

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:56 PM)Caroline Wrote:

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:04 PM)D Foster Wrote: The only thing that concerns me is that the  construction of the Pfizer vaccine is a type,as I understand, that has never been approved or used before.
I think that I prefer the Oxford one as the construction of that is similar to existing types.

That is not entirely true Dave.
A very long time ago, in the time before the antibiotics were discovered (because that is a discovery, not a development, and in fact more scary than a vaccine), people used a so called blood therapy which worked against specifically bacterial problems. They did not know in that time, but the now we understand the reason that it worked and that is because this therapy showed the DNA to the immune system, which then reacted by making the correct anti bodies.
This Pfizer vaccine works in the same way, but with RNA. The principle is the same.

But it's never been approved yet for use before .

For everything there is a first time.... and “approval” is a burocratic process that has nothing to do with real physical life.  Nature goes on without any “approval”.

Approval is based on testing and research but when it's a process that's never been used before then extra care needs to be used. I prefer to wait for the Oxford vaccine personally though I am trying to find out more about the use with the Stelara as you can't have any live vaccinations and I am a sure how the Pfizer is graded on that score.

(Sat-26-12-2020, 09:14 AM)D Foster Wrote:

(Sat-26-12-2020, 09:06 AM)Caroline Wrote:

(Sat-26-12-2020, 00:29 AM)D Foster Wrote:

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:56 PM)Caroline Wrote:

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:04 PM)D Foster Wrote: The only thing that concerns me is that the  construction of the Pfizer vaccine is a type,as I understand, that has never been approved or used before.
I think that I prefer the Oxford one as the construction of that is similar to existing types.

That is not entirely true Dave.
A very long time ago, in the time before the antibiotics were discovered (because that is a discovery, not a development, and in fact more scary than a vaccine), people used a so called blood therapy which worked against specifically bacterial problems. They did not know in that time, but the now we understand the reason that it worked and that is because this therapy showed the DNA to the immune system, which then reacted by making the correct anti bodies.
This Pfizer vaccine works in the same way, but with RNA. The principle is the same.

But it's never been approved yet for use before .

For everything there is a first time.... and “approval” is a burocratic process that has nothing to do with real physical life.  Nature goes on without any “approval”.

Approval is based on testing and research but when it's a process that's never been used before then extra care needs to be used. I prefer to wait for the Oxford vaccine personally though I am trying to find out more about the use with the Stelara as you can't have any live vaccinations and I am a sure how the Pfizer is graded on that score.

It is exacly as you say. The testing process is done. The approval is only a burocratic thing. Nature will not change.

Pfizer is not a live vaccine, it is in the form of mRNA, it is a package of information that is presented to your immune system. On the basis is this information the immuunsystem will build the antibodies.

(Sat-26-12-2020, 09:59 AM)Caroline Wrote:

(Sat-26-12-2020, 09:14 AM)D Foster Wrote:

(Sat-26-12-2020, 09:06 AM)Caroline Wrote:

(Sat-26-12-2020, 00:29 AM)D Foster Wrote:

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:56 PM)Caroline Wrote:

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:04 PM)D Foster Wrote: The only thing that concerns me is that the  construction of the Pfizer vaccine is a type,as I understand, that has never been approved or used before.
I think that I prefer the Oxford one as the construction of that is similar to existing types.

That is not entirely true Dave.
A very long time ago, in the time before the antibiotics were discovered (because that is a discovery, not a development, and in fact more scary than a vaccine), people used a so called blood therapy which worked against specifically bacterial problems. They did not know in that time, but the now we understand the reason that it worked and that is because this therapy showed the DNA to the immune system, which then reacted by making the correct anti bodies.
This Pfizer vaccine works in the same way, but with RNA. The principle is the same.

But it's never been approved yet for use before .

For everything there is a first time.... and “approval” is a burocratic process that has nothing to do with real physical life.  Nature goes on without any “approval”.

Approval is based on testing and research but when it's a process that's never been used before then extra care needs to be used. I prefer to wait for the Oxford vaccine personally though I am trying to find out more about the use with the Stelara as you can't have any live vaccinations and I am a sure how the Pfizer is graded on that score.

It is exacly as you say. The testing process is done. The approval is only a burocratic thing. Nature will not change.

Pfizer is not a live vaccine, it is in the form of mRNA, it is a package of information that is presented to your immune system. On the basis is this information the immuunsystem will build the antibodies.

I also understand that possible autoimmune reactions are possible and as Stelara interacts with the immune system I would like to know much more about it .

(Sat-26-12-2020, 11:47 AM)D Foster Wrote:

(Sat-26-12-2020, 09:59 AM)Caroline Wrote:

(Sat-26-12-2020, 09:14 AM)D Foster Wrote:

(Sat-26-12-2020, 09:06 AM)Caroline Wrote:

(Sat-26-12-2020, 00:29 AM)D Foster Wrote:

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:56 PM)Caroline Wrote:

(Fri-25-12-2020, 21:04 PM)D Foster Wrote: The only thing that concerns me is that the  construction of the Pfizer vaccine is a type,as I understand, that has never been approved or used before.
I think that I prefer the Oxford one as the construction of that is similar to existing types.

That is not entirely true Dave.
A very long time ago, in the time before the antibiotics were discovered (because that is a discovery, not a development, and in fact more scary than a vaccine), people used a so called blood therapy which worked against specifically bacterial problems. They did not know in that time, but the now we understand the reason that it worked and that is because this therapy showed the DNA to the immune system, which then reacted by making the correct anti bodies.
This Pfizer vaccine works in the same way, but with RNA. The principle is the same.

But it's never been approved yet for use before .

For everything there is a first time.... and “approval” is a burocratic process that has nothing to do with real physical life.  Nature goes on without any “approval”.

Approval is based on testing and research but when it's a process that's never been used before then extra care needs to be used. I prefer to wait for the Oxford vaccine personally though I am trying to find out more about the use with the Stelara as you can't have any live vaccinations and I am a sure how the Pfizer is graded on that score.

It is exacly as you say. The testing process is done. The approval is only a burocratic thing. Nature will not change.

Pfizer is not a live vaccine, it is in the form of mRNA, it is a package of information that is presented to your immune system. On the basis is this information the immuunsystem will build the antibodies.

I also understand that possible autoimmune reactions are possible and as Stelara interacts with the immune system I would like to know much more about it .

You have psoriasis. You have an overactive immune system on certain points. Stelara puts its foot on the brake concerting that specific overactivity.
But what does it have to do with autoimmunity ?

Almost everything interacts in some way with your immune system by the way... .