Jim, your count tends to bounce back quickly. The problem I have with assessing supplements is that any effect tends to be drowned out by noise. I hope your next test is all good.

Cheers

(Fri-03-05-2019, 12:07 PM)Caroline Wrote:

(Fri-03-05-2019, 12:04 PM)jiml Wrote: It certainly is Bill

I just had a call from my doctor about my blood test I had yesterday bear in mind last month my lymphocytes were 1.22 had a test yesterday and they are down to 0.82

Nothings changed with me no infection that I'm aware of and no change in habits or eating . .so why the change I can't imagine  

Are you a bit sniffy? A little flu perhaps?

No I'm fit as a fiddle Bill nothing I can attribute it to certainly no sniffing or even feeling lethargic. But it's just one test and I'll drop a tablet till my next test and see if it returns to normal

(Fri-03-05-2019, 12:46 PM)jiml Wrote:

(Fri-03-05-2019, 12:07 PM)Caroline Wrote:

(Fri-03-05-2019, 12:04 PM)jiml Wrote: It certainly is Bill

I just had a call from my doctor about my blood test I had yesterday bear in mind last month my lymphocytes were 1.22 had a test yesterday and they are down to 0.82

Nothings changed with me no infection that I'm aware of and no change in habits or eating . .so why the change I can't imagine  

Are you a bit sniffy? A little flu perhaps?

No I'm fit as a fiddle Bill nothing I can attribute it to certainly no sniffing or even feeling lethargic. But it's just one test and I'll drop a tablet till my next test and see if it returns to normal  

* Sets low voice.... * Okay Jim Yes, do that.

(Fri-03-05-2019, 12:58 PM)Caroline Wrote:

(Fri-03-05-2019, 12:46 PM)jiml Wrote:

(Fri-03-05-2019, 12:07 PM)Caroline Wrote:

(Fri-03-05-2019, 12:04 PM)jiml Wrote: It certainly is Bill

I just had a call from my doctor about my blood test I had yesterday bear in mind last month my lymphocytes were 1.22 had a test yesterday and they are down to 0.82

Nothings changed with me no infection that I'm aware of and no change in habits or eating . .so why the change I can't imagine  

Are you a bit sniffy? A little flu perhaps?

No I'm fit as a fiddle Bill nothing I can attribute it to certainly no sniffing or even feeling lethargic. But it's just one test and I'll drop a tablet till my next test and see if it returns to normal  

* Sets low voice.... *  Okay Jim Yes, do that.

Jim tightens underwear to give him a high voice.... sorry Caroline I didn't notice you there ... My your voice has dropped and no I'm not in the least sniffy

Bill,
Just to check.
I found a study in the Netherlands. In the JOURNAL OF DERMATOLOGICAL TREATMENT, called:

Association of lymphopenia and eosinophilia with dimethylfumarate treatment efficacy and tolerability in psoriasis: a retrospective study

The study has been executed by two doctors from the Maxima Medics centre
Department of Dermatology, Maxima Medical Center Veldhoven, Veldhoven, The Netherlands

Quote:

---

ABSTRACT

Background: Dimethylfumarate (DMF) is an effective treatment for psoriasis, which may cause side effects in a considerable group of patients. Alterations in white blood cell (WBC) counts may predict treat- ment success and the occurrence of side effects.
Objectives: To analyze WBC counts with respect to efficacy and the prevalence of side effects during DMF therapy for psoriasis.

Methods and materials: Psoriasis patients were treated with DMF. Retrospective data (WBC counts, treat- ment results, and side effects) were analyzed to assess correlations with respect to efficacy, tolerability, and leukocyte subsets.
Results: Of 95 patients treated with DMF, 60 patients (63.2%) had treatment success at week 16 and 77 patients (81.1%) experienced side effects. Absolute lymphocyte counts were more decreased in the treat- ment success group versus the treatment failure group: 1.1 (±0.7 SD) versus 0.6 (±0.6 SD); p<.05. Eosinophil counts were more increased in the group with side effects versus the group without side effects: 3.8 (±5.5 SD) versus 1.2 (±2.5 SD); p<.05. However, direct correlation studies showed no statistic- ally significant correlations.

Conclusions: Lymphopenia is associated with better clinical results of DMF treatment for psoriasis, whereas eosinophilia is associated with the occurrence of side effects.

It is this conclusion that is interesting for us DMF users.
If my interpretation is correct, then it says that if your lympho’s go down, then this means that the drug is effective for you. And in the second part, if your eosinophiles go up, you will experience more side effects.

Does this also fit for you ?

Cheers,
Caroline

I think that the more drug you take the better potential for controlling the disease, Caroline. But more drug will drop the lymphocytes and increase the eosinophils. It is probable that some are more sensitive to DMF. My experience is that DMF seemed to lose some efficacy over the first six months then very slowly it has become more effective for me. The question I wonder about is what effect measures to increase WBC counts have on the disease? I have not noticed any change with increases in neutrophils, and the jump I had in lymphocytes did not change my disease to my knowledge either.

(Fri-07-06-2019, 20:26 PM)Bill Wrote: I think that the more drug you take the better potential for controlling the disease, Caroline. But more drug will drop the lymphocytes and increase the eosinophils. It is probable that some are more sensitive to DMF.

I think so too, which also follows bit from the statistics of DMF, which say that 70% of the users have a positive effect. From the 30% left, there is a part of them who cannot cope with the effects, also not with Psorinovo they are oversensitive for DMF probably and for another part just nothing will happen.

Quote:My experience is that DMF seemed to lose some efficacy over the first six months then very slowly it has become more effective for me. The question I wonder about is what effect measures to increase WBC counts have on the disease? I have not noticed any change with increases in neutrophils, and the jump I had in lymphocytes did not change my disease to my knowledge either.

I see... translated... you are wondering that if the lowering of the lympho’s is a measure for the effectiveness, what will then be the effect of something that increases your lympho count. Would this have a negative effect. But apparently not.

(Sorry Bill, you must remember that I am not native English speaking. You have sometimes a way of expressing yourself in such a way that I at least have to reread what you write for at about three times..   )

No need to apologise, Caroline. I am always impressed by your fluency.

I think that DMF is very good at knocking out the lymphocytes causing the disease, too good in some cases. I suspect that if measures are taken to increase the lymphocytes when on DMF, the new guys are less likely to be troublemakers.

Cheers

I had a blood test on the 7th. Pretty much no change.



I have given up on the idea of supplementation to increase lymphocytes. Instead, I have been lowering the dose of dimethyl fumarate. I am now taking 500mg doses twice a week, about 40% less than I was on some months ago. I have a bit of psoriasis on an elbow, knee, and behind the ears, but that hardly changes. The arthritis is also well controlled, so it might be that I am getting more sensitive to the drug. The lower dose is much easier to take and I will see how I progress over the coming months.

Cheers

Thank you for keeping the updates going Bill.