(Thu-05-02-2015, 20:39 PM)Caroline Wrote: Now Fred, this time a big disagree with Dave.
MTX is dangerous but your know that already.

Be careful, have yourself regularly checked!!!  We cannot miss you  

P.s. Wished you would be able to e.g. follow the path of Bill, or go a bit outside the system without telling the system.

Ooh Caroline you are disagreeing with me as well .  ... I would love Fred to get onto DMF but it wouldn't be a quick fix for him even if he could get it from the Netherlands .... I think Fred is at a point ( and I could be wrong ) where he needs to break out of the pain and although not a nice thing to do it should hopefully give him some fast reaction.

(Thu-05-02-2015, 20:50 PM)jiml Wrote: I think Fred is at a point ( and I could be wrong ) where he needs to break out of the pain and although not a nice thing to do it should hopefully give him some fast reaction.

(Thu-05-02-2015, 20:49 PM)Fred Wrote:

(Thu-05-02-2015, 20:39 PM)Caroline Wrote: Now Fred, this time a big disagree with Dave.
MTX is dangerous but your know that already.

Be careful, have yourself regularly checked!!!  We cannot miss you  

P.s. Wished you would be able to e.g. follow the path of Bill, or go a bit outside the system without telling the system.

Oh it's still Poison as far as I'm concerned, and I would advise everyone to leave it well alone.  

They are taking bloods once a week, and I will soon stop if I feel anything is not right.

I'm already thinking of a different approach, but I'm going to give this a try first in the hope I can get mobile again as it's getting me down.

As long as everything is checked and monitored then ,bearing in mind all the alternatives, then MTX is a known quantity and is relatively safe . Like anything else it's a question of checks and balances and for PsA is can be very effective ,yes it is a very toxic substance but the question is ,where do you go from here that is as effective and is not just as or worse with side effects.

(Thu-05-02-2015, 23:19 PM)D Foster Wrote: As long as everything is checked and monitored then ,bearing in mind all the alternatives, then MTX is a known quantity and is relatively safe . Like anything else it's a question of checks and balances and for PsA is can be very effective ,yes it is a very toxic substance but the question is ,where do you go from here that is as effective and is not just as or worse with side effects.

Well I wouldn't use it unless I had to, which is now. I would rather not take it as it is still Poison in my opinion, but like you said where do I go from here when all avenues have been tried and all other doors are closed.

Jim summed it up, I have reached a point where I need something fast to get me out of this. So Methotrexate is my only option for that, but if I'm honest I want it to fail so I can say I told you so.

Should it work and get me out of this mess then I will probably stick to it for the three months, but I'm seriously looking into my options because I will not stay on it after three months. If it means me going back to this state again because I stopped using it after three months then .............................................. well if I'm honest I just don't know at the moment.

But for now my mind is set on getting myself sorted by whatever means it takes, and that means me taking poison.

Unlike most of you, I have no experience with Mtx other than what I have read here. All I can say is that sometimes you have to do what is necessary with what is available to you.

I hope it works for you Fred, and that you get relief and then hopefully you can get off of it and on to something else, but from your posts you need to do something now to get mobile again. One day at a time sounds appropriate here as well as do what you need to do.

MTX is going to prevent bone damage and isn't going to help with the back. However, it may bring some symptom relief. There are a lot of drugs out there worse than MTX. Hopefully you feel better soon.

(Thu-05-02-2015, 23:19 PM)D Foster Wrote:

(Thu-05-02-2015, 20:49 PM)Fred Wrote:

(Thu-05-02-2015, 20:39 PM)Caroline Wrote: Now Fred, this time a big disagree with Dave.
MTX is dangerous but your know that already.

Be careful, have yourself regularly checked!!!  We cannot miss you  

P.s. Wished you would be able to e.g. follow the path of Bill, or go a bit outside the system without telling the system.

Oh it's still Poison as far as I'm concerned, and I would advise everyone to leave it well alone.  

They are taking bloods once a week, and I will soon stop if I feel anything is not right.

I'm already thinking of a different approach, but I'm going to give this a try first in the hope I can get mobile again as it's getting me down.

As long as everything is checked and monitored then ,bearing in mind all the alternatives, then MTX is a known quantity and is relatively safe . Like anything else it's a question of checks and balances and for PsA is can be very effective ,yes it is a very toxic substance but the question is ,where do you go from here that is as effective and is not just as or worse with side effects.

I still don't agree with you Dave. There are still better ways to go.

(Fri-06-02-2015, 07:46 AM)Caroline Wrote:

(Thu-05-02-2015, 23:19 PM)D Foster Wrote:

(Thu-05-02-2015, 20:49 PM)Fred Wrote:

(Thu-05-02-2015, 20:39 PM)Caroline Wrote: Now Fred, this time a big disagree with Dave.
MTX is dangerous but your know that already.

Be careful, have yourself regularly checked!!!  We cannot miss you  

P.s. Wished you would be able to e.g. follow the path of Bill, or go a bit outside the system without telling the system.

Oh it's still Poison as far as I'm concerned, and I would advise everyone to leave it well alone.  

They are taking bloods once a week, and I will soon stop if I feel anything is not right.

I'm already thinking of a different approach, but I'm going to give this a try first in the hope I can get mobile again as it's getting me down.

As long as everything is checked and monitored then ,bearing in mind all the alternatives, then MTX is a known quantity and is relatively safe . Like anything else it's a question of checks and balances and for PsA is can be very effective ,yes it is a very toxic substance but the question is ,where do you go from here that is as effective and is not just as or worse with side effects.

I still don't agree with you Dave.    There are still better ways to go.

I took MTX for 9 years ,6 by mouth and 3 by self injection and even though I am on 90mg of Stelara the relief for my PsA was much better on MTX.The side effects were not good towards the end of the tablets then on injection that settled down but built up again so I came off it however for the P it never cleared it but as I said for the PsA yes it was good. I can think of many other treatments that are worse and if you are very careful and monitor it then it is OK , PsA is extremely painful and I am lucky because I am not as bad as Fred.I take Tramadol and would argue that this is as bad as MTX in many ways especially as it only masks the pain leaving the joints alone which MTX does effect. A catch 22 situation prevails so where do you go ,it's just a matter of trying to play it safe as you can to get some relief.

(Fri-06-02-2015, 09:27 AM)D Foster Wrote:

(Fri-06-02-2015, 07:46 AM)Caroline Wrote: I still don't agree with you Dave.    There are still better ways to go.

I took MTX for 9 years ,6 by mouth and 3 by self injection and even though I am on 90mg of Stelara the relief for my PsA was much better on MTX.The side effects were not good towards the end of the tablets then on injection that settled down but built up again so I came off it however for the P it never cleared it but as I said for the PsA yes it was good. I can think of many other treatments that are worse and if you are very careful and monitor it then it is OK , PsA is extremely painful and I am lucky because I am not as bad as Fred.I take Tramadol and would argue that this is as bad as MTX in many ways especially as it only masks the pain leaving the joints alone which MTX does effect. A catch 22 situation prevails so where do you go ,it's just a matter of trying to play it safe as you can to get some relief.

I took MTX for three weeks. After that three weeks, there was only one thing in my mind. "I don't wanna die so young, I must get rid of this stuff"....
So I had the luck to stumble upon DMF, which you have not used , upto now I am very lucky with that.

I hope UR feeling better soon Fred. We need a good joke here for a good healing laugh! Do u have a dog they can make laughter quickly, just tease with a cookie. That usually get my pups going they are so funny! Studies show that pets bring so much comfort and laughter to many of their owners. Good for health and keeps us company they are our little angels.

I have lots of days like what you describe...Some days is a miserable day. That's when I tune into this forum.

Many here have great positive reinforcements to help you thru this. It will pass . If not its time to check with UR derm. Have you tried DEMARD'S, (disease modifying arthritis drugs). Apremilast is the newest bio drug has less side effects than the others on the market. It was approved in the US in in 2013. My hands are so swollen this am can't pick up small things or get my ring off. Usually after I take anti intiinflamatories after a couple of hours and lite exercise things loosen up! Get out for a walk. Even though it's could be pouring rain just to walk outside or going to the mall later will help raise Ur spirits! Just a little walk. Loosen up the joints help get the toxins out and I drink lots of water. Have u tried topicals for sore joints they help a lot. REALLY !

Hope this is a flare that rest and lots of treatments like hot packs, hot tub, pain meds help well give some relief. You know the drill..
I'm send healing blessings UR way. (((((((Hugs))))))) Quest4CURE


Caroline it sound like u have been thru the mill with this dang disease. MTX has helped a lot of people. Some take it with bios . It always a long road till u find remission or the flakes take a break . U have Lots of good advice!
At least there are a lot of choices for PSA & P. Less than 10 years ago very little was offered for arthritis of any type. Even though we all find what helps, eventually the body tends to build up antibodies to some meds, then a new med are required. That's why some bios work for months then stop. YIKES the toenail thing sounds outrageous!
Sorry that must have been a rude awakening! Hope UR toenail has grown back normally.

I agree with you Caroline this disease is a catch 22 finding relief without side effects & relief at the same time. Not everyone has the same experience with a drug. Everyone has their experiences and beliefs,we are all different when it comes to P & Psa.

It's all so much better when summer comes. Spring is just around the corner. Summer warmth always helps the joints. Time for meds, rest & lite stretching , walkin to help out too.

Lots of to you all.