Bee venom

[Bill]

What medical emergency training did the staff have? What special equipment was available to treat a collapsed patient? What were the regulatory requirements and were they adhered to? An epipen and asthma puffer can be life saving if available.

[Caroline]

No, it is medical negligence. I would bet that the charlatans did not even have an epipen on hand to deal with the onset of shock.

I don’t agree with the conclusion, as occasionally also people with no earlier indications before will also die in e.g. Disney world attractions. We also don’t close them down. Or while car driving, motorcycle driving, skiing, and so I can continue with all of the medications that are available, and thousands of other occasions which we all keep doing.
It is too easy to call practitioners, charlatans, certainly there are of them in between, but those types are everywhere in our society even up to presidents (Russia, US, Syria, etc.), it is impossible to separate the real charlatans from people who are real with knowledge and the will to help other people.

Basically when you live, there is a chance that you will die. The circumstances can be influenced but not predicted. Sometimes it is just bad luck.

[Bill]

From the article:

<During an apitherapy session, she developed wheezing,
dyspnea, and sudden loss of consciousness immediately after
a live bee sting. An ambulance was called, although it took 30
minutes to arrive. The apitherapy clinic personnel administered
methylprednisolone.  No  adrenaline  was  available.  When  
the  ambulance  arrived,  the  patient’s  systolic  pressure  had  
dropped to 42 mmHg and her heart rate had increased to 110
bpm.  Oxygen  saturation  was  not  reported.  Treatment  was  
administered  immediately  and  consisted  of  a  double  dose  
of  adrenaline  (0.5  mg  each),  saline  infusion,  intravenous  
corticosteroids,  and  antihistamines. >

So no, the clinic did not have adrenaline or salbutamol, or even an anti-histamine: For a clinic administering substances known to cause anaphylaxis, this is disgraceful. Sorry to disagree with you, Caroline.

Cheers

[Turnedlight]

Yep I would have thought having adrenaline on site would be a good idea..

[jiml]

Yep I would have thought having adrenaline on site would be a good idea..

I would have thought that would be a minimum requirement, although the places that offer this treatment don’t appear to be regulated, so seem able to do as they like

[Caroline]

From the article:

<During an apitherapy session, she developed wheezing,
dyspnea, and sudden loss of consciousness immediately after
a live bee sting. An ambulance was called, although it took 30
minutes to arrive. The apitherapy clinic personnel administered
methylprednisolone.  No  adrenaline  was  available.  When  
the  ambulance  arrived,  the  patient’s  systolic  pressure  had  
dropped to 42 mmHg and her heart rate had increased to 110
bpm.  Oxygen  saturation  was  not  reported.  Treatment  was  
administered  immediately  and  consisted  of  a  double  dose  
of  adrenaline  (0.5  mg  each),  saline  infusion,  intravenous  
corticosteroids,  and  antihistamines. >

So no, the clinic did not have adrenaline or salbutamol, or even an  anti-histamine: For a clinic administering substances known to cause anaphylaxis, this is disgraceful. Sorry to disagree with you, Caroline.

Cheers

No problem Bill. But I really do have another opinion.
It is not necessary to call them charlatans.
I do agree on the fact that they were not professional enough, but a lot of rheumatologists are not professional enough to treat PsA, still we do not call them charlatans. (might be a swell idea though... )

Cheers,

[Fred]

Still self inflicted to me. We all have the choice to use any form of treatment, no one makes us do it. So in my eyes she volunteered for something that isn’t regulated, the clinic didn't break any regulations because there are none.

We all choose to use whatever we are using. We weigh up the chances of it going wrong against the relief we get. I know the risks with my treatment so it's self inflicted for me too, but I prefer to use something and someone that is regulated.

@Caroline the rheumatologist's I have seen are charlatan's as far as I'm concerned in their knowledge of psoriatic arthritis.

[Bill]

Fred, I wouldn't care if she were as dumb as two sheep. No one is deserving of such shoddy treatment. There is such a thing as duty of care. Health practitioners have an obligation to do no harm, to be aware of the risks of the procedures they carry out, to explain those risks to the patient, and to have the means of dealing with adverse events should they occur. If that clinic meets regulatory standards in Spain (I very much doubt that it would), then I would feel very sorry for Spaniards.

Caroline, I would have even less sympathy for a medical specialist giving poor treatment. e.g. I am very annoyed with Australian practitioners for not pushing the Therapeutic Goods Administration to make dimethyl fumarate available as a treatment for psoriasis.

Cheers