Is psoriasis a viral problem

[Caroline]

Thunder,

There are no sigs that psoriasis could be viral.
However there are signs, that is research, that indicate that bacteria may be in involved.
There are also thoughts that psoriasis has to do with mitochondrial cells.

Caroline

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EDIT By Fred: These posts were split from How symmetrical is your psoriasis?

[Thunder]

Hi Caroline,

 Thank-you for your input much appreciated.    

 Caroline said... "There are no signs that psoriasis could be viral."

 Please take a look at his quote at this url.
 
 LINK REMOVED

"niversitätsmedizin Berlin have discovered why patients with psoriasis are less susceptible to viral infections than patients suffering from atopic dermatitis (atopic eczema). The reason for this is the larger quantity of special proteins present in psoriatic skin, which inhibit viral replication. The interdisciplinary team under the direction of Dr. Robert Sabat from the Department of Dermatology and the Institute of Medical Immunology, in collaboration with the Institute of Virology and the Berlin-Brandenburg Center for Regenerative Therapies (BCRT), has additionally discovered a new function of the immune system. The study is published in the current issue of the journal Science Translational Medicine"

"Psoriasis and atopic dermatitis are the two most common chronic diseases of the skin, from which over 40 million people suffer in the US and in EU alone. They cause persistent visible changes of the skin that severely impact the quality of life of the patients. In addition, the damaged skin barrier enables pathogens, such as viruses, to penetrate the skin and multiply. Surprisingly, only atopic dermatitis patients show a high incidence of cutaneous viral infections, which exacerbate the course of atopic dermatitis and if not treated promptly, might be life-threatening. The authors of the just-published study show that compared to the skin of patients with psoriasis, the skin of atopic dermatitis patients produces smaller quantities of what are known as antiviral proteins, which inhibit viral replication. In the search for the trigger responsible for these differences in protein production in the two skin diseases, the research team came upon the immune messenger interleukin-29."

 Once bitten twice shy?  Strange there would be all this anti viral stuff on the skin of a psoriasis sufferer if viruses aren't somehow involved.

 
Caroline said...  "However there are signs, that is research, that indicate that bacteria may be in involved."

 If you are implying psoriasis is a bacteria.  I'm not so sure, most people with psoriasis, have probably had many courses of antibiotics, throughout their lives.  Antibiotics kill bacteria and if not, cause changes in them.  And yet, people still have psoriasis unchanged.   Just my opinion though, I don't know.



Caroline said...  "There are also thoughts that psoriasis has to do with mitochondrial cells."

 EDIT By Fred Link removed......................................

"In most animal species, mitochondria appear to be primarily inherited through the maternal lineage, though some recent evidence suggests that in rare instances mitochondria may also be inherited via a paternal route. Typically, a sperm carries mitochondria in its tail as an energy source for its long journey to the egg. When the sperm attaches to the egg during fertilization, the tail falls off. Consequently, the only mitochondria the new organism usually gets are from the egg its mother provided. Therefore, unlike nuclear DNA, mitochondrial DNA doesn't get shuffled every generation, so it is presumed to change at a slower rate, which is useful for the study of human evolution. Mitochondrial DNA is also used in forensic science as a tool for identifying corpses or body parts, and has been implicated in a number of genetic diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease and diabetes."

 My aunt, my mum's sister has had severe psoriasis most of her adult life.  We share the same mitochondria.  Why isn't my condition as bad as hers?  Diet?  It would be great if I could help her.

 Thanks again for your comments.
 Quick see Fred, he's buying everybody $1000 shares in a hankie factory!  

[Caroline]

Hi Caroline,

 Thank-you for your input much appreciated.    

 Caroline said... "There are no signs that psoriasis could be viral."

 Please take a look at his quote at this url.
 
 

"niversitätsmedizin Berlin have discovered why patients with psoriasis are less susceptible to viral infections than patients suffering from atopic dermatitis (atopic eczema). The reason for this is the larger quantity of special proteins present in psoriatic skin, which inhibit viral replication. The interdisciplinary team under the direction of Dr. Robert Sabat from the Department of Dermatology and the Institute of Medical Immunology, in collaboration with the Institute of Virology and the Berlin-Brandenburg Center for Regenerative Therapies (BCRT), has additionally discovered a new function of the immune system. The study is published in the current issue of the journal Science Translational Medicine"

"Psoriasis and atopic dermatitis are the two most common chronic diseases of the skin, from which over 40 million people suffer in the US and in EU alone. They cause persistent visible changes of the skin that severely impact the quality of life of the patients. In addition, the damaged skin barrier enables pathogens, such as viruses, to penetrate the skin and multiply. Surprisingly, only atopic dermatitis patients show a high incidence of cutaneous viral infections, which exacerbate the course of atopic dermatitis and if not treated promptly, might be life-threatening. The authors of the just-published study show that compared to the skin of patients with psoriasis, the skin of atopic dermatitis patients produces smaller quantities of what are known as antiviral proteins, which inhibit viral replication. In the search for the trigger responsible for these differences in protein production in the two skin diseases, the research team came upon the immune messenger interleukin-29."

 Once bitten twice shy?  Strange there would be all this anti viral stuff on the skin of a psoriasis sufferer if viruses aren't somehow involved.

Hi John,

To me that sounds not at all strange.
Psoriasis is an auto-immune disease as we all (well not all, but all over here on the forum) know. This means that the immune system got into a higher gear. Seen from that perspective it makes sense that this activity makes more anti-viral stuff, allthough senseless.
This doesn't mean that Psoriasis is viral.
Even stronger said, Psoriasis is explicitly not viral, because if it were, we all would be very contagious to the people around us. And that is exactly what we are not. Psoriasis is, while it looks very scary to others, not contagious.

 
Caroline said...  "However there are signs, that is research, that indicate that bacteria may be in involved."

 If you are implying psoriasis is a bacteria.  I'm not so sure, most people with psoriasis, have probably had many courses of antibiotics, throughout their lives.  Antibiotics kill bacteria and if not, cause changes in them.  And yet, people still have psoriasis unchanged.   Just my opinion though, I don't know.

I am not saying that psoriasis is a bacterial disease. Certainly I do not believe that.
But if you look around on the net then you find that

Infections caused by bacteria or viruses can cause a psoriasis flare. The bacteria streptococcus that causes infections such as tonsillitis, sinusitis, and "strep throat" are a well known trigger of a type of psoriasis called Guttate psoriasis. The human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) is also associated with psoriasis.

So bacteria may very well be involved in activating or getting psoriasis.
As bacteria interact with our cells this might lead to the mitochondrial suspicion.

What you also see when surfing the net is that

Researchers have now found 4 key genes that are involved with psoriasis. These genes regulate the human leukocyte antigen (HLA) system. The HLA molecules are designed to present foreign substances to the immune system so they can be destroyed, but this process is malfunctioning in psoriasis. Psoriasis patients with a specific HLA genetic factor called HLA-CW6 have a tendency to develop psoriasis at an earlier age. However, only 10% of people who harbor these genes develop psoriasis. Therefore, other factors are required to trigger the disease.

This is where the biologicals are aiming on. To prevent this to happen. Or to suppress this mechanism. So you are still fighting the symptoms.
But.... Is this really the cause? Is the problem not lying deeper?
Read further on in my next comment.

 
Caroline said...  "There are also thoughts that psoriasis has to do with mitochondrial cells."

EDIT: By Fred Link removed .....................................

"In most animal species, mitochondria appear to be primarily inherited through the maternal lineage, though some recent evidence suggests that in rare instances mitochondria may also be inherited via a paternal route. Typically, a sperm carries mitochondria in its tail as an energy source for its long journey to the egg. When the sperm attaches to the egg during fertilization, the tail falls off. Consequently, the only mitochondria the new organism usually gets are from the egg its mother provided. Therefore, unlike nuclear DNA, mitochondrial DNA doesn't get shuffled every generation, so it is presumed to change at a slower rate, which is useful for the study of human evolution. Mitochondrial DNA is also used in forensic science as a tool for identifying corpses or body parts, and has been implicated in a number of genetic diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease and diabetes."

 My aunt, my mum's sister has had severe psoriasis most of her adult life.  We share the same mitochondria.  Why isn't my condition as bad as hers?  Diet?  It would be great if I could help her.

Yes, why is it not the same....
Well I think your DNA, and therefore automatically also your cells are way different than that of your parents.
But sure, me too I am thinking there is a genetic relation, because my dad also has it and my brother and sister also, though very minimal.
Why mitochondrial, well you can see in my post RE: Dimethylfumarates and Psoriasis in the tread on DMF, that there is a real suspicion that the reason that a medication as DMF works may very well be the fact that fumarates are working in the energy cycle of the cells and the additional fact that DMF is no Immuno suppressor, which the others, also the biologicals, surely are. They are inhibitors of several IL- thingy's.
This leads to the suspicion that the real cause may even be somewhere in our cells.
I am not a scientist, but what I see is that this way of looking at psoriasis is overlooked (skipped) by the researchers (of course research in immune suppressors and IL-thingy's is much more fashionable), but this has already been observed in the past by doktors with a logical mind.

 Thanks again for your comments.
 Quick see Fred, he's buying everybody $1000 shares in a hankie factory!  

I don't get your last remark  
Caroline

[Thunder]

Hi Caroline,

 Thank-you for the interesting rebuttals.  I know from experience how long it takes to look up and research data.  Hours and hours.  Probably takes me a lot longer, than yourself or others.  You make some great points.  

 So you don't find it unusual there is a lot more antiviral stuff on the skin of a psoriatic lesion as compared to the skin of a dermatitis patient?  So the body is mistaken, thinking it's fighting a virus then.  I do agree the body over reacts sometimes.  Years ago I think I had acute sinusitis (A sudden onset of cold-like symptoms such as runny, stuffy nose).  My nose constantly ran, for a week.  The body's over reaction.  I ended it, by taking an over the counter common allergy medication.  My nose dried up and I was all better, within minutes. So the body was mistaken in how to deal with sinusitis and perhaps psoriasis too.  
 
 

Quote:
 Quick see Fred, he's buying everybody $1000 shares in a hankie factory!  
I don't get your last remark    
Caroline

 
 Fred was teasing me in another thread, at diet dos and don'ts.  Seems everyone's a comedian around here.

 Thanks Caroline, you've given me lots to think about.  

[Fred]

Can I just remind you two this thread is titled: How symmetrical is your psoriasis?

Someone has to do it.  

You're welcome to start another thread, but I would rather this thread be kept on topic for our reader.

Thank you.

[Thunder]

 Finally, a voice of reason!  Thanks Fred!  It's all Caroline's fault of course, I didn't have the heart to warn her earlier.  So I must take some blame, but not too much, just a little bit, since I'm a newbie.    

 But, Thank God!, I don't have to start researching all that complicated stuff Caroline was talking about!    

[Fred]

 Finally, a voice of reason!  Thanks Fred!  It's all Caroline's fault of course, I didn't have the heart to warn her earlier.  So I must take some blame, but not too much, just a little bit, since I'm a newbie.    

 But, Thank God!, I don't have to start researching all that complicated stuff Caroline was talking about!    

Oh you can research it, but on another thread.

STOP! Don't answer    

[Caroline]

Yes of course it was my fault again ...  
It is always the same    are we talking some reasonable stuff, are we    

Luckily I am normally an

[Fred]

Yes of course it was my fault again ...  
It is always the same    are we talking some reasonable stuff, are we    

Luckily I am normally an

Caroline you know you are welcome to have discussions but it's not helpful to our readers or for web searches when a thread goes to far off topic.  

Anyway I've split the thread and made this new thread for you to continue the conversation.  

And I'll chip in with the following. Guttate is often caused by streptococcal throat infection, and bacteria or viral infections, including upper respiratory infections.

But on the other side here is a study published 2013 in sciencemag.

Quote:

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Psoriasis and atopic dermatitis (AD) are the most common chronic inflammatory skin diseases. Although both patient groups show strongly impaired skin barrier function, only AD patients frequently suffer from cutaneous viral infections. The mechanisms underlying the distinct susceptibilities to these pathogenetic and often life-threatening infections are unknown. We show that antiviral proteins (AVPs) such as MX1, BST2, ISG15, and OAS2 were strongly elevated in psoriatic compared to AD lesions and healthy skin. Of 30 individually quantified cytokines in psoriatic lesions, interleukin-29 (IL-29) was the only mediator whose expression correlated with the AVP levels. IL-29 was absent in AD lesions, and neutralization of IL-29 in psoriatic skin reduced AVP expression. Accordingly, IL-29 raised AVP levels in isolated keratinocytes, epidermis models, and human skin explants, but did not influence antibacterial protein production. AVP induction correlated with increased antiviral defense of IL-29–treated keratinocytes. Furthermore, IL-29 elevated the expression of signaling elements, resulting in increased sensitivity of keratinocytes toward its own action. We identified T helper 17 (TH17) cells as IL-29 producers and demonstrated their ability to increase the antiviral competence of keratinocytes in an IL-29–dependent manner. Transforming growth factor–β and the activity of RORγt/RORα were most critical for the development of IL-29–producing TH17 cells. IL-29 secretion by these cells was dependent on NFAT and c-Jun N-terminal kinase and was inhibited by IL-4. These data suggest that TH17 cell–derived IL-29, which is absent in AD, mediates the robust antiviral state on psoriatic skin, and demonstrate a new function of TH17 cells.

Carry on.    

[Caroline]

Hihi, John,
Now we need to continue the discussion.
But let's sit around for that first and have a cup.

Caroline