Bill's pure dimethylfumarate thread

[Bill]

Hi Fred and Caroline. The cysteine is quite reactive, so you could probably mix it with DMF and put it in a gelatine capsule. Because you then form a conjugate which does not seem to cause much irritation there is no need for a slow release formulation. As I also believe that high peak plasma concentrations better control the disease I am not really a fan of the slow release concept. Currently I am finding that taking cysteine the DMF closely together after a meal seems to be effective, although I am inclined to try taking a bit more cysteine with the DMF, perhaps about 1.3 grams.

All good thus far.

Cheers,

Bill

[Caroline]

Bill, I did some research.

(Don't ask me how, that is secret )

A real and well knowledged doctor is behind this information. Not a dermatologist, no a real doctor.

The fact that taking the DMF intermittent  has a better effect  is already known since 1985....  It is even described in the magazine  Integrale Geneeskunde  on p 23 about taking fumarates with the treatment of psoriasis, and it says:" The intermitted taking of this preparate normally gives the best results with the least side effects".

So  your experiences confirm that the treatment of psoriasis with fumarate  still  can be enhanced

lymphopenia  can be induced by excessive physical training and can be reduced by cysteine.
Cysteine is quite harmless. It is a sulphuric amino acid which is  found in meat eggs cheese milk etcetera.

Some questions  from my contact :
How many Cysteïne did you have to use to get a normal lymphocyte value again? And what was the beginning count?
How did you make the capsules with DMF that pass your stomach ?

Comments from my contact: Psorinovo has been made to support the patients that have trouble in their intestines when taking DMF  in order to reduce the side-effects.


And here an article on the effects of cysteine  with heavy physical exercise .

Quote:

---

ABSTRACT: BACKGROUND: Intense exercise induces increased blood neutrophil counts and decreased lymphocyte counts, and leads to inflammation and immunosuppression. It was previously reported that cystine and theanine (CT) supplementation by long-distance runners before a training camp suppressed the changes of these blood parameters observed in un-supplemented control subjects after the camp. The purpose of the present study was to determine the effects of CT supplementation on the inflammatory response and immune state before and after intense endurance exercise in long-distance runners at a training camp. METHODS: Sixteen long-distance runners were allocated to one of two groups given CT supplements (700 mg cystine + 280 mg theanine daily) or placebo (8 in each group) for 7 days prior to and during a 9-day training camp. Daily run training averaged 19.9 km/day prior to the camp and 28.6 km/day during the camp. On the initial and final days of the camp, blood samples were collected before and after 15 km morning interval running workouts (1000 m x 15 times) and analyzed for neutrophil and lymphocyte counts and myoglobin. RESULTS: The relative change in exercise-induced blood neutrophil count (% of pre-exercise values) was significantly lower in the CT group than in the placebo group (163.3 +/- 43.2% vs. 200.4 +/- 19.6%, p = 0.044) on the initial day of camp, but not on the last day. The decline in lymphocyte count (% of pre-exercise values) was significantly less in the CT group than in the placebo group (60.2 +/- 19.2% vs. 36.2 +/- 12.0%, p = 0.010) on the initial day of camp, but not on the last day. In blood myoglobin, there was a trend toward lower % of pre-exercise values in the CT group (p<0.09) on both measurement days. CONCLUSION: CT supplementation significantly attenuated the increase in neutrophil count and the reduction in lymphocyte count induced by intense endurance exercise. These results suggest that CT supplementation may suppress the exercise-induced fluctuation of the blood immunocompetent cells and may help to reduce the alteration of the immune state.

Cheers,
Caroline

[Bill]

Thank you, Caroline.

I took an interest in cysteine because I heard that it was the limiting factor in the body's ability to produce glutathione. An online search then revealed that cysteine rich whey protein may be beneficial for psoriasis patients. As you have read, cysteine is quite safe, so I began to take it as a supplement, initially on a once daily basis. After about a week I began to think that it might be helping, so I doubled the dosage (twice daily). I take a bit over a gram of cysteine dissolved in water.

I have no information on the effect of cysteine on my lymphocyte count, although I am aware that it can help. The lymphocyte count of 1.0 was on the tail end of a very bad cold (probably influenza) and four weeks after I ceased taking DMF. I will get another blood count in a few weeks.

In taking cysteine with DMF, I do not take any measures to bypass the stomach. As you know, I have grumbled considerably about the side effects of raw DMF. What I have observed is that the symptoms are far milder when I take cysteine and then raw DMF just after a meal.

Cheers,

Bill

[jiml]

Hi Bill I'm glad you did take an interest in Cysteine , I am going to try cysteine after my next set of blood results come in . My last result for lymphocyte count was good at 1.25 I am due another test next week and if the results are the same or lower . I shall get some and see if it lifts the lymphocyte count any further, if as a biproduct it also gets rid of my last tiny spots and stops them from reappearing I will be delighted
But I will let you know when I start and will keep a record of results.

It's great to hear that it has reduced your side effects ..... Great stuff

[Bill]

Thanks, Jim. 1.25 sounds like an excellent count, but I well understand your desire to be clear. Do remember though that I am a lab rat and I have not been on cysteine for very long. Cheap and safe is still a waste of money if it does nothing for you, but I do wish you all the best. You know, I did not have quite the big meal that I normally would with my DMF, yet my symptoms are still quite mild. (My little dogs were very interested in my pasta, so I shared it with them.)

Cheers,

Bill

[jiml]

Thanks, Jim. 1.25 sounds like an excellent count, but I well understand your desire to be clear. Do remember though that I am a lab rat and I have not been on cysteine for very long. Cheap and safe is still a waste of money if it does nothing for you, but I do wish you all the best. You know, I did not have quite the big meal that I normally would with my DMF, yet my symptoms are still quite mild. (My little dogs were very interested in my pasta, so I shared it with them.)

Cheers,

Bill

Yes Bill an excellent count but I'm really interested in your experiment and hope to be able to add credance to your results if mine are similar

( was your pasta laced with cysteine )

[Bill]

Certainly not!

[Caroline]

Doctor suggests: N-acetylcysteine 600 mg, twice a day.

[Bill]

That may be a better way to get cysteine (although I doubt it would be cheaper), but it would not be able to form a conjugate with the DMF in the stomach, which I believe is why the side effects of raw DMF are far milder for me now.

Cheers,

Bill

[Caroline]

That may be a better way to get cysteine (although I doubt it would be cheaper), but it would not be able to form a conjugate with the DMF in the stomach, which I believe is why the side effects of raw DMF are far milder for me now.

Cheers,

Bill

You have another good point Bill. I did not know that this was the case.